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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Envelope triggering in FX section
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moylando



Joined: Dec 11, 2008
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Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Envelope triggering in FX section
Subject description: Envelope triggering in FX section
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I'm new to the G2 and was putting together a paraphonic patch which has one envelope/filter shared by all voices. I assume the correct place to put this is in the FX section since it is shared by all voices.

However, I notice that the envelope retriggers every time a key is pressed or released which seems very odd. I could see it possibly retriggering for each key down, but not on a key up. For instance, I can hold down a note, hear the envelope sweep, keep holding that down and press another key the envelope sweeps, release the key and the envelope sweeps again.

Envelopes in the VA section do not do this. Is this correct behavior? I'm able to turn the KB source off and instead patch a MonoKey gate in which at least gives me only a new gate if I lift all fingers, but it would also be nice to have the envelope retrigger for each new note, but not when a note is released.

Thanks.

Dave
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ark



Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know why you want an envelope to be shared by all voices. When you release a key while holding other keys down, don't you want the keys that you hold down to continue to sound? In that case, I would think that you would need an envelope per voice.

I guess there's no obvious reason you couldn't put the filter in the FX section. That's not ordinarily done with true analog synths becuase you'd like the envelope to attenuate any noise generated by the filter; but for a software-simulated filter like the G2 it shouldn't be an issue.
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moylando



Joined: Dec 11, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is such a case for this setup in the realm of mimicing some classic synths such as the Arp Omni and Roland Paraphonic. They both have individual divide-down oscillators per note, but only one global filter/VCA/EG. The Omni allows multiple keying (new envelope sweep for each note down) or single trigger (have to release all keys to get a new envelope).

I think both of these are valid but triggering on a key up is just strange if there's no way to disable it.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have no keyboard here to check, but what happens when you use the monokey module in the FX section to trigger/gate the envelope (and disable it's auto trigger/gate)?
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also .. please don't march .. we are on a bridge right now.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did a test with setup as in image attached, the yellow stuff is a synth, the purple stuff the mono envelope and the other stuff emulates a random keyboard player ... with the voice count set to four I don't seem to have retriggers on note ends


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also .. please don't march .. we are on a bridge right now.
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moylando



Joined: Dec 11, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's true, the mono key gate works as expected, but try it using the default gating. I would expect a new envelope on every key down but not key ups. Strangly, it triggers on key up too.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

moylando wrote:
it triggers on key up too.


I think you should look at it in a different way, like when you play and hold two notes and then release one the envelope retriggers not on the release of the note but on reactivation of the first one. Maybe there should have been a couple of options for how this should be handled ... this whole triggering thing is quite tricky as I remember from some MIDI stuff I've been programming in the past.

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't have the G2 connected (to busy trying things on the Lead Smile but is using the Envelope in the Voice section and sending the control signal by the Busses to the FX section an option?

Wout
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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I remember that i had similar problems once... its rather odd behaviour i think..

at least i dont see a logical explanation why it should be like this...

but that dont means that there is none Wink
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i hope i understand your question. you want to retrig the eg module every time you pres a key.
in the attached patch the EG module is set at 'retrigger'.
i hope it works because i did this in the G2 Demo.

Last edited by Roland Kuit on Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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moylando



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for that. I still think the envelope should retrigger correctly, directly in the FX section but I'm more interested in the end result.

I love the G2. I've got a large analog modular but being able to access so many different modules, store patches, play polyphonically, split/layer is still blowing my mind a bit. Let's hope Nord doesn't abandon the modular platform.
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, try this one, made in the demo version.
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